Once again Erin McKinney writes a load of unproven ''facts'' for Awesome Ocean, the site set up with Seaworld's money.
Lets look at the FACTS and PROVE these facts this time, as this is just getting ridiculous and is presented as a factual report when really it is the presumption of one person only.
In order to testify in court as an "expert," you must first offer your qualifications to the judge and jury.
This is very true so we will look at their qualifications
And contrary to what you see on TV, staying at the Holiday Inn Express does not actually make you an expert.
No one said it did!
So, let's set the table a little here - watching “Blackfish” doesn’t make you an animal behaviorist any more than watching “Top Gun” makes you a fighter pilot, people.
Many activists have said over and over if Blackfish is such an issue to you ignore it and look at the real facts. Have you?? No instead you continue to block anyone with a differing opinion, anyone proving you wrong and you continue to provide material that can be shredded with FACTS in minutes.
here , here, here , here, here, here
In the same way that you state you cannot take Blackfish as a reference point then I say neither can you take Seaworld's website as a reference either. They are fighting to keep their business alive and are not going to say anything that may turn even more people away are they? You don't need either as the proof is all there in official documents.
When it comes to the marine mammal captivity "debate," thinking people look toward experts and facts.
Exactly so lets look at them, as I see you have provided NONE yet again!!
Though there has always been a vocal (and often radical) minority that speaks out against marine mammals in captivity, recent books like “Death at SeaWorld” and the endlessly debunked movie “Blackfish” have brought the issue into the court of public opinion. Unfortunately, otherwise well-meaning people have been duped into demanding that SeaWorld “explain” themselves.
Duped by the people who told you milk causes autism.
Once again you try to tie everyone to PETA, they are just one voice fighting the anti captivity campaign, but I guess they are the easiest option for you as it aids you in avoiding answering real questions as all the people who Stand with you, say exactly the same thing, so as they are a separate organisation and we are looking at Seaworld FACTS lets take them out of the equation too.
Thus, SeaWorld now has to defend their Shamu show and other programs against the allegations brought on by the filmmakers, authors and disgruntled former employees - all with activist backgrounds.
Garbage in, garbage out.
LETS GET THIS CLEAR BEFORE MOVING ON AS WE GO OVER AND OVER THE SAME THING.
ACTIVISTS ARE NOT PROTESTING BECAUSE OF BLACKFISH, DEATH AT SEAWORLD OR FORMER EMPLOYEES, THEY ARE PROTESTING BECAUSE OF SEAWORLD THEMSELVES. Now we have that straight we can move on with the real TRUTH AND FACTS!!
In other words, if you start with a fundamentally skewed or corrupt premise, everything thereafter is fatally flawed.
That’s not how this court should work
You are correct so now we have everything out of the way, we can look at those facts.
The fact is SeaWorld has evolved dramatically throughout its 50 year history. On their own, they have continually improved their facilities and programs. They are a consistent model within the industry and across the globe. The fact is, real experts look to SeaWorld to learn how to take care of marine animals.
They have multigenerational cetaceans. They have performed shark C-sections, penguin cataract surgery and birthed twin sea lions.
They even preformed surgery on a fish - a fish!
Again you need to separate why people protest from what Seaworld does.You as supporters seem to have missed what Seaworld is trying to tell you. They know why people protest. After Blackfish Seaworld started to change their websites for example.
These are the old Seaworld websites, featuring their star attraction.
SeaWorld existed BEFORE governmental regulations of marine life facilities, and since the standards have come into existence, they have not only met them, but far exceeded them. They also exceed Association of Zoo and Aquarium regulations as well. If you haven't had your fill of facts, SeaWorld goes far beyond governmental standard in conservation and education. SeaWorld operates both the Hubbs-SeaWorld Research Institute, and the SeaWorld Busch Gardens Conservation Fund.
Basically, SeaWorld blows governmental standards and regulations out of the water (pun intended).
This is where you start to lose your credability again, they HAVE NOT far exceeded the governmental regulations since they came into existence at all.
Firstly there is the most well known $75000 fine and 3 citations for the death of Dawn Brancheau. Seaworld also lost the appeal.
Click here to read the full 35 page decision by the court of appeal
Then 3 years later they were fines again and have been labelled repeat offenders see here
Seaworld were fined for polluting Mission bay in 2012, with the California Regional Water Board stating
Since April 13, 2005, there have been numerous violations of effluent limitations at the facility, including three exceedances of Ammonia, six exceedances of Enterococcus, and one exceedance of Total coliform.
"Furthermore, there have been multiple months in which required sampling was not reported.
"The constituents not sampled have included pH, Total coliform, Fecal Coliform, Enterococcus, and Total Residual Chlorine."
See the full report here
There are historic violations but as they are historic the current ones are more relevant but as they are noted as being repeat offenders, both in safety and water standards the documents prove that
SeaWorld DEFINATELY DO NOT blow governmental standards and regulations out of the water
They also contribute more to science and research in a day than all of the manipulative activists combined.
This again proves that you have researched absolutely nothing other than that which fits your own agenda
I recently went over and sent you a response to your last post about the research Seaworld have on their website. If you look through it there are numerous articles on live capture techniques, articles on how to identify young in a pod, surveys that were required prior to capture and numerous for the diseases those captives died from, not done as a prevention, done after the fact. To save going through them all again you can see them here . There are 48 publications in total less than one per year.
Compare that figure to say - the Marine Mammal Center who are also rescuing marine mammals, and they have released that number in the past 2 years!! See for yourself here
The links I have provided so far are actual FACTUAL documents, even where they connect up to my own blog, the links to those disputing facts are there too. As you said yourself ''thinking people look towards experts and facts''.
Those are the facts, but the main point is this:
Not a single expert body on the care and keeping of animals has brought a charge against SeaWorld.
And in return if all they say are lies and misinformation why has Seaworld not sued any of them or taken them to court?
All of the accusations come from disgruntled employees and animal rights extremists like PETA and HSUS.
Really well lets look at those you call animal rights extremists, and disgruntled employees.
These are the scientists, you have labeled animal activists. SEE THEIR CREDENTIALS HERE
Ken Balcomb does studies for NOAA, he is deemed good enoughfor NOAA but not for you.
Lori Morino is the author of over 80 publications on dolphin and whale brain anatomy and evolution, comparative intelligence and self-awareness in dolphins and primates, and the ethical dimensions of human-nonhuman relationships, including dolphin-assisted therapy and swim programs, as well as elephant-assisted therapy.
David Duffus, has more scientific publications published than Seaworld
Naomi Rose - is a member of the International Whaling Commissions Scientific Committee. She has published popular and scientific articles and lectures at several universities. She participates in task forces and workshops at International, National and State Level. She received her PhD on the social dynamics of killer whales in 1992 from the University of California in Santa Cruz.
Jeff Ventre also had peer reviewed publications out on the captivity issues. See here
John Jett has peer reviewed publications out too here
If by saying Samantha Berg and Carol Ray were not experienced enough to speak on the issue of Tilikum or didn't work with Tilikum, then surely that is confirming what they say. Whether they worked with him or not, Seaworld state everyone was issued with a special protocol for working with Tilikum as part of their training.
They also say it takes a long long time to become a Shamu trainer and they have to be competent before being allowed in the water with them, so if you say these 2 people were none of the above, are Seaworld lying about their training then?
John Hargrove was employed twice by Seaworld and was the last to leave, if they didn't think he was up to scratch would they have employed him again?
Lastly there is the anti captivity person turned pro captivity and writer for yourselves Bridgette Pirtle.
Regardless whether she had a falling out with Blackfish or not, when she left Seaworld she blamed Seaworld themselves for that stating:
''SeaWorld has an opportunity right now. They can spend the money to fight to preserve the appearance of the fallacies they have been built on OR they can spend that money on the animals that deserve it. I spent too many years watching decisions made to spend money on show elements, playgrounds or barbeque restaurants. Now is the time to let actions speak louder then words.''
'' Ultimately, the same concerns voiced as a result of Dawn’s accident had been voiced after incidents in the past. Lessons not learned and continually disregarded. Many of those taking care of the animals are fighting for less responsibility to be placed upon their ever-drooping dorsal fins. Show schedules, public interactions, and dining obligations create a strain on animals already in a highly stressed environment. They are proudly introduced as “ambassadors” but they are simply work horses for a profit hungry industry desperate to remain relevant in a society that has already begun to recognize we have moved past such a trite necessity. Until parks like SeaWorld exhale their dying breathe, tighter regulations and stronger accountability for adhering to such guidelines is a given.''
Why would someone say those things about Seaworld?? Did she lie back then or is her support for Seaworld now, a lie as one of them is? See the full interview here.
As I always try to find the truth, I have asked her many many times, if this is truth or lies, as her Nat Geo interview said the same as did her book launch, and in typical fashion there is no reply.
Those accusations are echoed by a mouthpiece with no standards - that's been caught lying before.
You need to do as I do when reading articles as anyone can post an article to the dodo, but the one Eric posted by Melissa Cronin is listed above as a complete manipulation of the truth, go look that up too.
The charges levied against SeaWorld by “Blackfish” and others are serious allegations of animal abuse, misuse, neglect and cruelty. So why are no credible sources standing up to make these accusations?
They have, have you forgotten AB2140?
Check the lastest data here
This report collates scientific evidence which includes
- Previous analyses using data through 1992 showed that captive orcas have higher mortality rates than wild orcas; new analyses examining data through 2010 confirm that the situation has not improved in the past 18 years, and in fact has worsened. Captivity is, in essence, poor habitat for orcas, causing early death.
- Captive female orcas give birth too young and too often, leading to both high adult and high infant mortality.
- The most common cause of death for captive orcas is infection. Chronic stress may be an important factor in weakening the animals’ immune response.
- Captive orcas have poor dental health compared to wild whales, which may be another factor in their susceptibility to fatal infections.
- Orcas in captivity are more aggressive toward each other than in the wild. Females also behave abnormally toward their calves more often than in the wild.
- Since captive orcas have been publicly displayed, they have seriously threatened the lives and safety of dozens of people, and four people have been killed. However, wild orcas have injured only a handful of people — none seriously — and there are no records, at any time in history, of them killing anyone.
It is their responsibility to bring in hard, conclusive and undeniable information that makes their point.
They have over and over again, but you choose not to see it, you choose to look for reasons it cannot be so and then look for reasons that the people presenting the evidence must have some agenda. The agenda is that science is proving that it is wrong to keep these animals captive.
Taking YouTube videos out of context is not proof. A disgruntled, terminated, ex-employee's story from 20 years ago is not proof, especially when more relevant and direct witnesses directly refute the claims.
Where are the more relevant and direct witnesses refuting the claims? Where are their scientific documents showing that those presented are incorrect?
There is no data point that proves marine mammals are unhappy or abused in zoological facilities. In fact the data shows SeaWorld’s animals are provided for physically and mentally with the top teams in the world attending to their well-being. Individuals with knowledge of marine animals and behavior go to SeaWorld and see well-fed, engaged animals participating in top tier training.
Experts in the eye of the court - if you will.
Many of those experts have also written against the captivity of these creatures, but again you don't cite any and only choose to see what you want to see. In the recent debate, even Seaworld vets agreed that collapsed dorsal fins are caused by captivity, there isn't enough water pressure or activity to keep them upright. He also said that the Seaworld website WAS misleading as they had used data by Ingrid Visser who studies New Zealand orcas to state the rate in the wild is 23% collapse, when in reality it is only 1%. That poor man had to stand up in the debate and admit Seaworld had done that, if they hadn't have lied and mislead people in the first place that wouldn't have happened.
The allegations of abuse and neglect are coming from those with an agenda. An agenda to make you a pawn. A pawn to raise money. A pawn to achieve political ends. A pawn to increase power and influence. It's an age old story.
I have no money to raise, those protesting Seaworld outside have no money to raise, the scientists on Blackfish who you call activists but whom I have proven to be actual scientists have no money to raise. So where do you get that idea from?? On the other hand, from this side of the fence, is Seaworld going to tell you 45 orcas have died in those tanks, are they going to show you their orca profiles, showing over 100 incidents between orcas and trainers, are they going to admit why they breed hybrid orcas with no conservation value what so ever, and are still doing it today with Kalia?? No of course they're not as they do want your money, as they are going under fast.
And as for the supposedly expert “former trainers,” each comes prepackaged with their own stories of conflict, egos and self-serving attitudes to prove their interest in SeaWorld’s downfall stems much more from self-interest than a noble quest to help animals.
Why did they leave then and how does their stories differ from those of Bridgette Pirtle who you have writing for Awesome Ocean. They have stuck to the same story over and over again, has your heroine?
The bottom line is that the statement “but orcas CAN’T be happy in tanks, I just know it!” carries no more weight then “but he HAS to be the murderer, I just know it!”
It's textbook logical fallacy and bad lawyers use it all the time to try and trick a jury.
No one I know has said that, everyone I know has done exactly the same as I do, they are not supposed to be in there because of ........ Tilikum reacts to stress in his environment aggressively , Seaworld say so here . Daniel Dukes had injuries consistent with being pulled into the pool by Tilikum, here is the evidence etc etc.
Most people supporting Seaworld do exactly as you have done here and provide absolutely nothing to prove what they are saying. where in this whole article have you put, the trainers said ''quote'', the science is wrong because ''quote''
TO QUOTE YOU YOURSELF - THINKING PEOPLE LOOK TOWARDS EXPERTS AND FACTS.
Well start to provide some as once again this is just your opinion supported by nothing in an attempt to win support from the people on Stand with Seaworld. It is not those sheep you need to convince, there is no point preaching to the converted, if you want to convince people like myself that everything is brilliant at Seaworld than start to provide factual evidence to do it. I have NEVER blocked my blog, my facebook or my twitter, it is always open to anyone who wants to debate something, maybe you should start to extend the same courtesy in return. You may not always like the answers but a FACT IS A FACT which ever side of the fence it is on.
Are you that gullible?
Read through the FACTS, look in the mirror and ask yourself that question!